Sunday, May 24, 2009

Which came first the priest or the child rapist?



Ireland has recently become the scene of the latest Catholic church child rape scandal. The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse has recently discovered there to be a history of official cover-ups of pedophiles within the Irish Catholic church dating back to the 1930s. Furthermore the Irish government made a deal with the church to cap their losses at $175 million, and in the process use taxpayer money to pay for the sins of the child raping priests.

This is by no means a new phenomenon, it has been exposed so many times that it almost begins to dull the senses. It seems as though where ever one finds the Catholic church one is sure to find child rapists hiding in the shadows of its luminous steeples.

Such constant pedophilism begins to raise a question; Is one more likely to become a child rapist by becoming a priest or is the Catholic church simply providing a safe hiding spot for those who would otherwise be unholy pedophiles. Which comes first the priest or the child rapist?

Yet this seems to be a question Church officials do not seem to be interesting in investigating. Some have avoided the topic altogether, such as Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor who has insisted on an unfounded attack against those who do not share his superstitious belief system.

From the Times article, Archbishop of Westminster attacks atheism but says nothing on child abuse:
At the installation of the Most Rev Vincent Nichols at Westminster Cathedral, his predecessor, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, described a lack of faith as “the greatest of evils” and blamed atheism for war and destruction, implying that it was a greater evil even than sin itself.

Others such the American-based Catholic League spokesman Bill Donohue have attempted to downplay the scandal. Choosing not to show empathy to those who have been wronged and instead focusing blame upon the media. His statement is included in entirety:

Reuters is reporting that “Irish Priests Beat, Raped Children,” yet the report does not justify this wild and irresponsible claim. Four types of abuse are noted: physical, sexual, neglect and emotional. Physical abuse includes “being kicked”; neglect includes “inadequate heating”; and emotional abuse includes “lack of attachment and affection.” Not nice, to be sure, but hardly draconian, especially given the time line: fully 82 percent of the incidents took place before 1970. As the New York Times noted, “many of them [are] now more than 70 years old.” And quite frankly, corporal punishment was not exactly unknown in many homes during these times, and this is doubly true when dealing with miscreants.

Regarding sexual abuse, “kissing,” and “non-contact including voyeurism” (e.g., what it labels as “inappropriate sexual talk”) make the grade as constituting sexual abuse. Moreover, one-third of the cases involved “inappropriate fondling and contact.” None of this is defensible, but none of it qualifies as rape. Rape, on the other hand, constituted 12 percent of the cases. As for the charge that “Irish Priests” were responsible, some of the abuse was carried out by lay persons, much of it was done by Brothers, and about 12 percent of the abusers were priests (most of whom were not rapists).

The Irish report suffers from conflating minor instances of abuse with serious ones, thus demeaning the latter. When most people hear of the term abuse, they do not think about being slapped, being chilly, being ignored or, for that matter, having someone stare at you in the shower. They think about rape.

By cheapening rape, the report demeans the big victims. But, of course, there is a huge market for such distortions, especially when the accused is the Catholic Church.


Poor little Catholic church, always getting picked on.

This comes after a time in which the Pope had recently appeared in Africa telling huge crowds condom use increases the chance of contracting HIV/AIDS. Meanwhile back in Ireland, Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern is attempting to pass an anti-blasphemy law which will make it illegal to say mean things about another’s belief system. Free speech is to be eliminated in the fear that someone might get their feelings hurt.

It may be hard to decipher which came first, the priest or the child rapist, but there remains little doubt these degenerate predators have found a home in the arms of Catholicism. Now more than ever is the time for blasphemy, which truly is a victimless crime.

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10 comments:

Zarvox said...

"Poor little Catholic church, always getting picked on.

This comes after a time in which the Pope had recently appeared in Africa telling huge crowds condom use increases the chance of contracting HIV/AIDS. Meanwhile back in Ireland, Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern is attempting to pass an anti-blasphemy law which will make it illegal to say mean things about another’s belief system. Free speech is to be eliminated in the fear that someone might get their feelings hurt.

It may be hard to decipher which came first, the priest or the child rapist, but there remains little doubt these degenerate predators have found a home in the arms of Catholicism."


C'mon, man! NONE of this has anything to do with the argument the priest just made. It's a blatant red herring and ad hom. In fact, you never refute the claims made by the fellow who says, in essence, "Yeah, this stuff happened, but it's not as bad, nor as priest-related, as everyone thinks."

As to what could make the priests behave this way? Celibacy. Try cloistering yourself off from women for a few months; if it moves, it'll start looking more attractive. What do you think a lifetime of celibacy would do?

Andrew Holmes said...

Donohue’s argument, if one is to call it that, is so obviously weak I felt little need to dissect it further. The information contained in the report speaks against his claims and Donohue is left scrambling to direct the blame elsewhere. That people would openly attack the catholic church simply for being the catholic church appears to be the crux of his argument. This however is not the case.

This “stuff” is as bad as reported by the media, in some cases much worse. That’s why I decided to use the term child rapist over child molester. The word molester softens what we are actually describing. A cursory look into the report demonstrates a blatant history of rape and abuse. This can’t be simply dismissed as a media attack upon the Catholic church

Like the Pope statements on AIDS, we see an inconsistency with the basic facts of the matter. Like proposed anti-blasphemy laws, and attacks upon secularism bandied about by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor we see an attempt to divert attention elsewhere.

While celibacy might lead to conditions were one is more likely to commit rape could it not be argued the Catholic church is not just a breeding ground for such activity, but a safe house for those that would otherwise be pedophiles? Time and time again we’ve seen the church work to protect it’s priests from any harm. Thus such a system works as a magnet to draw in the most vile and hideous members of society, for it is here they know shelter will be provided for them.

Zarvox said...

"Time and time again we’ve seen the church work to protect it’s priests from any harm."

Indeed. It's bad PR if the truth gets out.

"Thus such a system works as a magnet to draw in the most vile and hideous members of society, for it is here they know shelter will be provided for them."

With all due respect, Andrew: bullshit. A child molester is not going to become a priest so that he can rape children. Can you back up your argument in even the slightest bit? A priest's life is hardly easy. Hell, the vast majority of your hypothetical rapists-who-want-to-be-priests aren't even going to make it through seminary. Once you do make it through seminary, I hope you don't value a particularly comfortable existence, 'cause you're not going to get it.

Do you know why only people who are really into God and helping people become priests? Because there is literally almost nothing else good about the position. If you're not a fan of one of those two things, you'd be mad to join the priesthood. Certainly not for an unproven claim that the church will totally have your back if you want to be a repeated rapist.

There are exceptions, but for the most part, if the church finds out you've been diddling your little charges, they're going to put you in a position where you don't get to see kids. Now you're really fucked, aren't you? Shitty job, and no kids to diddle.

Furthermore, how would they even know to join the priesthood? These scandals are recent. Unless there's a secret paedophile newsletter with inside information about goings-on in the church, how would you even know to join the priesthood to get away with sexual exploitation of youth?

So far, in response to the claim that the church attracts paedophiles we have:

1. It's completely not worth it.
2. They probably wouldn't even make it through seminary.
3. As soon as the church found out, they'd almost immediately get reassigned.
4. They wouldn't know in the first place.

Finally, as someone who was raised Catholic, I find the whole claim completely offensive. Your intimation that the organization that I've seen do so much good is a magnet for scum and refuse is utterly insulting.

Andrew Holmes said...

“Do you know why only people who are really into God and helping people become priests? Because there is literally almost nothing else good about the position. If you're not a fan of one of those two things, you'd be mad to join the priesthood. Certainly not for an unproven claim that the church will totally have your back if you want to be a repeated rapist.”

Loving God and lusting after children are not mutually exclusive.

Why is the church refusing to name the offenders in this most recent scandal then if not for the protection of the priests? No one else can possibly gain from this other than those child rapists who are being provided protection by the church.

The church has had a long time practice of moving rapists and abusers around within the church rather than kicking them out. For a basic introduction to these facts please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases#Abusers_moved_to_different_locations .

“Furthermore, how would they even know to join the priesthood? These scandals are recent. Unless there's a secret paedophile newsletter with inside information about goings-on in the church, how would you even know to join the priesthood to get away with sexual exploitation of youth?”

These scandals aren’t really recent at all. The victims in these cases date back to the 1930s, it’s been going on for a long time. But you do raise a good point here, there is as you say “no secret paedophile newsletter” so perhaps the claim that potential rapists might seek out roles as priests might be somewhat unfounded without further collaborative evidence. I was posing this as more of question rather than a statement however.

“1. It's completely not worth it.
2. They probably wouldn't even make it through seminary.
3. As soon as the church found out, they'd almost immediately get reassigned.
4. They wouldn't know in the first place.”

1. I don’t know how one makes a decision when balancing desire to sodomize children vs. the schooling one must endure to become a priest. But we do see those who wish to prey about children very often seek out roles in positions of power.
2. Many of them do make it through seminary, thus the reason why there are so many child raping priests.
3. You’re actually defending the shuffling around of child rapists? Why not do the proper thing and bring criminal charges against them?
4. There’s been a long established history of child abuse within the Catholic church, the idea that this is anything new is quite preposterous.

“Finally, as someone who was raised Catholic, I find the whole claim completely offensive. Your intimation that the organization that I've seen do so much good is a magnet for scum and refuse is utterly insulting.”

We’re going to start weighing the pros and cons of the Catholic church?

The persecution of Galileo.
The Inquisition.
The Witch Hunt.
Solidarity with the Nazi Party during World War II.
The spread of misinformation about sexually transmitted diseases throughout Africa and around the world.
Just to name a few.

This is not to say the Catholic church has not done some good things. Just when one starts to tally things up I think it becomes more obvious the world would be a safer place without having organizations that justifies such horrors with superstitious nonsense.

I’m insulted by an organization that pretends to care for others, when it really cares mostly for itself. I’m insulted by an organization that promotes dogmatic belief over critical thinking. You find my writing offensive? I really could care less. Personally I find child rape to be offensive, but that’s my value system. It’s one I derived by myself through reason, as opposed to a system which appeals to sky fairies and primitive mythology.

Zarvox said...

You are arguing against a strawman.

(Several, in fact)

I am not supporting the raping of children.

I am not arguing against the position that there are priests who rape children. I am arguing against the position that paedophiles will actively seek out the priesthood as a way to rape children.

I am not supporting the reshuffling of rapists, merely acknowledging that it happens, and stating that any paedophile who knows enough to get into the church will probably know this, and thus know that he won't get too much raping in before he can't rape no more.

I am not supporting the historical Catholic church. I am supporting the modern Catholic church. You know, the one that accepts evolution and science, and (with some exceptions) is the single greatest ally the skeptical community has in the religious world? The one that we should be thanking ON BENDED KNEE for giving us an inroad to the faithful? That one?

I am not saying that loving god and lusting after kiddies is mutually exclusive. I am saying that if you weren't going to join the priesthood already, the job has virtually nothing to recommend it. It's a shitty way to get close to kids – especially since as soon as the church finds out (while they will protect you) they will shuffle you away from children.

I am not saying that seminary weeds out child rapists. I am saying that seminary weeds out those who are not hardworking, intelligent, and faithful enough to become priests. Odds are, this includes the vast majority of paedophiles who want to join the priesthood just to get close to kids.

I am not saying that there is not a long history of child abuse in the church. What I am saying is that it's only been recently that this information has become public. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong, of course) that there were any 1940s-era scandals about such things to tip off paedophiles into entering the priesthood. If they don't know that the church protects its own, they won't have any incentive to go to seminary.



With a better understanding of what you are ACTUALLY arguing against, please re-read my original two posts.

Tristan Zimmerman said...

I've been out for a while with pneumonia, which is why EvoEdu hasn't been updated. As soon as I start updating, though, I'm afraid I'll have to remove LLD from the "friends" section of the site.

EvoEdu *must* remain neutral on religious grounds. I *cannot* link to a site that bashes a religious group for reasons not pertaining directly to science. I would ask if it would be possible for you to take this post down, but it's unlikely you'd do that.

I apologize, but I'm sure you understand.

Andrew Holmes said...

Zarvox,

I’m not about to pray to anyone. The idea that I should be thankful to an organization which shelters child rapists from the law and continues to spread misinformation about AIDS is pretty ridiculous. I’m not willing to give them a pass on child rape nor help them spread lies about a deadly disease just because they believe in evolution. These are the actions of the modern church and I find them irreprehensible.

You’re point is taken that it might be hard for child rapists to get through seminary. Furthermore I’m willing to accept your point that it’s likely child rapists don’t become priests for the protection. It’s far more likely that priests turn into child rapists rather than child rapists turning into priests. This being said it is still a great organization to be a part of if you are a child rapist.

I didn’t mean to mischaracterize your posts by creating what you now see as straw man arguments. I’ve re-read your original posts in the new light of this 3rd post. It’s probably more correct to state your writing lacks clarity rather than accusing me of not understanding them. It was not my intention to argue against a straw man.

I want to make clear that I’m not against Catholics, but the organization itself and those that hold positions of power within the church that have continually protected child rapists.


Zimmerman,

I definitely understand that as an educational organization it’s probably best to distance yourself from me. I don’t always hold the most popular views on subjects such as these. I’m bashing this religious organization because of their treatment of children, which isn’t a scientific stance. However, the Catholic church’s views on AIDS does go directly against the modern scientific understanding of this disease.

Anyway, I hope you feel better, I’ve had pneumonia before so I know how bad it can suck. Thanks for reading, best of luck with EvoEdu.

Zarvox said...

"You’re point is taken that it might be hard for child rapists to get through seminary. Furthermore I’m willing to accept your point that it’s likely child rapists don’t become priests for the protection. It’s far more likely that priests turn into child rapists rather than child rapists turning into priests. This being said it is still a great organization to be a part of if you are a child rapist."

That's cool. I think we've reached a point where we mostly agree, and we can agree to disagree on the rest.

Andrew Holmes said...

Sounds good to me.

Andrew Holmes said...

The Archbishop of Dublin came out today and started talking like a reasonable human being too. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0525/1224247324722.html
It's a nice change of pace I must say.